John Orr (1825-1891)

John could be called John Orr III, since we know his father and grandfather were both named John Orr but I have no indication that he used any generational suffix.  He was the oldest known child of John and Magdalen (Bird) Orr.  I am indebted to Mary Beth Dunhaupt Figgins for even knowing the existence of John.  In her book 'Ancestry of W. M. Richards and A. Elizabeth "Betsey" Gwinner' she sets out some facts about John based on her research.  In it she gives a birth date of 27 Jan 1825 and references him having an early work experience in Edinburgh. 
Early Life in Scotland
In the 1841 Scotland Census John is not listed with his father and mother and the rest of the family at Drumbathie.  Although only 16, it appears he had already left the home and was working as a servant in the household of Archibald Gerard as the clip shows below.

Figure 1: 1841 Scotland Census, New Monkland Parish, Lanarkshire, Scotland (Rochsoles residence)

The occupation column shows "M. S." which I believe means Male Servant.  Archibald Gerard of Rochsoles, about 1.5 miles northwest of Drumbathie, was from a well-to-do family and lived by "independent means" as shown by the "Ind." abbreviation in Figure 1 above.  The Limerick Chronicle of 22 July 1840 page 2 reports that

"Archibald Gerard, Esq. who served in the 92nd has been appointed by the Lord Lieutenant of Lanarkshire, to a lieutenancy in the Upper Ward and Airdrie Yeomanry Cavalry."

I do not know how long John worked for Mr. Gerard, but by 1847 he had apparently moved to Edinburgh.  The Figgins book states that

In a letter written on 6 June 1847 John was living at 27 Leith Walk in Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland.  He was still working in a shop and says he can live very well on eight shillings to eight shillings and sixpence a week.

What kind of shop is a mystery although later in life he is stated to be a carpenter or builder.  Figure 2 below shows people living and working along Leith Walk circa 1847.

Figure 2: 1846-47 Edinburgh and Leith Directory pg 241

Immigration

That John immigrated to Australia is not in doubt, but I have not found a specific record.  His death certificate holds a clue.  It states he died in 1891 and had been in Victoria, Australia for 39 years.  This would make his arrival about 1852.  More study is needed to establish an exact date.  The Figgins book mentions a letter received by his mother dated in 1860 from his sister Margaret who had also immigrated to Australia.  John is mentioned in the letter as living near so he was at least in Australia by 1860.

Marriage. 

In his marriage record, John (living in Sale, Gippsland, Victoria, Australia) married Ellen Cleary who was also living in Sale.  Ellen was the daughter of John Cleary (a farmer) and Margaret (Fox) Cleary and was born in County Cork, Ireland.  John was a 40-year-old carpenter and Ellen a 23-year-old domestic servant.  Apparently neither had been married before.  A Catholic priest, M. Hayes, performed the rite on 31 Oct 1868.  M. Hayes is probably Rev. Matthew Hayes (1841 - 2 Jan 1916) who served for many years in Victoria and is buried in Melbourne General Cemetery.
I have not been able to find an immigration record for Ellen.  Her death record in 1929 states she had been in Victoria 65 years.  This would put her immigration in about 1864.  There is indeed a record of an Ellen Cleary age 18 arriving on Jan 13 1864 aboard the "Great Australia." However this record also shows her traveling with John Cleary (24), Peter Cleary (22) and Eliza Cleary (17).  None of these companions seem to fit her family as  constructed from Catholic marriage and birth/baptism records.  These records show the family as follows.
Parents John Cleary and Margaret Fox married 7 Feb 1839 in Kildorrery parish.
Children:

•   Mary (b. 1840)
• Michael (b. 1842)
• Margaret (b. 1844)
• Bridget (b. 1845)
• Ellen (b. 1846)
• Bridget (b. 1848
• Thomas (b. 1854)
• James (b. 1857)

The place of birth of the children all agree with "Griffith's Valuations 1847-1864" that the family lived in a house in the village of Kildorrery with a small garden, and farmed 10 acres in Scart Townland, Kildorrery Parish, County Cork, Ireland.

Children of John and Ellen
The ancestry.com database "All Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922"  shows the following children.

Name	Registration or Birth Year	Registration or Birth Location	Parents' Names
John Orr	1869	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary
Thomas Orr	1871	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary
Magdalen Orr	1873	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary
Ellen Orr	1875	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary
Alexander Orr	1877	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary
Janet Orr	1879	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary
Alexander Orr	1881	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary
William Richard Orr	1883	Sale, Victoria	John Orr, Ellen Cleary

Note that there are two children named Alexander.  The first apparently died young and another named in his place as was a common tradition for these folk at this time.

Life in Sale, Victoria Australia

As we have seen, John already lived in Sale when married in 1868.  Many references to him place him on Macalister Street in that town (as early as 1871 as seen below) and Ellen continued to live on that street until her death in 1929 so it was the family hometown for over 60 years.
Sale, named for General Sir Robert Sale a British army officer, was a small town described in 1888 as follows

Figure 3: Victoria Post Office Directory for 1888-1889 (Wise) pg 190.

John seems to have been an active member of society.  There was a common practice for ratepayers (i.e. taxpayers) or burgesses (i.e. eligible voters) to sign petitions to call public meetings or draft candidates to run for local offices.  These lists of persons were then published in the newspaper.  John appears on several such lists, an example of which is shown in Figure 4.

Figure 4:  Gippsland (Victoria, Aus) Times  6 May 1871  Page 2

John is also listed as a member of the Gippsland Caledonian Society in 1875-76 (according to Gippsland Times 7 Dec 1875, pg 2) and is noted as an active member in his obituary of 1891
The papers of the day did not publish much personal information at this time, but a few items seem to have been worthy of mention.  It is possible, of course, that these articles pertain to another John Orr, but I have not seen another John Orr in Sale and certainly not of Macalister St.

Figure 5: Gippsland Times 11 Dec 1876; pg 2

Figure 6: Gippsland Times ; 31 Mar 1879  Page 2

Figure 7: Traralgon Record (Traralgon, Vic, Aus) 10 Dec 1889; pg 2

The Death of John Orr

The following death notice and brief obituary occur on the same page and column but are placed together her for space-saving purposes.

Figure 8: Gippsland Times, 1 Apr 1891  Page 3

John's death record contains the following information
When and where Died :
1891 28th March ; Macalister Street ; Borough of Sale County of Tangil
Name and Surname, Rank or Profession :
John Orr ; Builder
Sex and Age :
Male ; 66 Years
Cause of death, Duration of last Illness, Medical Attendant, when he last saw Deceased :
Paralysis ; 2 months ; Dr. V. E. Browne ; 27th March 1891
Name and Surname of Father and Mother, if known, with Rank or Profession ;
John Orr Farmer ; Not Known
Signature, Description and Residence of Informant
L Jensen; Undertaker conducting funeral; Sale
Signature of Deputy Registrar, Date, and Where Registered
J Coverdale; 30 March 1891 ; Sale
When and where buried, Undertaker by whom certified
1891 28th March ; Sale Cemetery ; L Jensen
Name and Religion of Minister or Names of Witnesses of Burial
G M Conner ; Presbyterian Minister
Where Born, and how long in the Australian Colonies, stating which,
Airdrie, Scotland ; In Victoria 39 Years
Married, Where and at what age and to whom
Sale, Victoria ; 43 years ; Ellen Cleary
Iss, in order of birth, their names and ages
John 21 yrs, Thomas 20, Magdalene 18, Ellen 16, Janet 12, Alexander 9, William 7

Ellen's life after John

As mentioned, Ellen continued to live on Macalister St. in Sale after John's death.  She is shown on the Electoral Rolls database at Ancestry.com from 1905-1925 with her daughters Janet, Minnie Magdalene, and Nellie living with her at various times.  There are also several mentions of her children and grandchildren over the years making news and occasionally visiting her.  She died on 4 Jan 1929.

Figure 9: Gippsland Times, 7 Jan 1929, page 3

Transcript of the above image: "One of the oldest pioneers of the district in the person of Mrs. Ellen Orr relict of the late John Orr, passed away on Friday last at her residence, Macalister street, Sale, where she had resided for 61 years.  The deceased, who was an estimable citizen and very fond of her church, was the loved mother of Jack, Tom, Minnie, Nellie, Janet, Alex, and Will.  The funeral -- a private one -- took place on Saturday morning."

Ellen's death record contains the following information

• Died: 4 Jan 1929 Macalister Street, Sale
• Widow, 84 years old
• Cause of death: Carcinoma of face (6 months) and Exhaustion
• Father/Mother: John Cleary, Farmer/Margaret Cleary m.n. Fox
• Informant: William Wilson, Authorised Agent at Sale
• Buried: 5 Jan 1929 at Sale Cemetery
• Minister: Patrick M ODonnell, Roman Catholic Clergyman
• Born: County Cork, Ireland
• Lived 65 years in Victoria [i.e. arrived about 1864]
• Married to John Orr 23 years
• Children
• John 59 yrs
• Thomas 58 yrs
• Minnie 56 yrs
• Ellen 54 yrs
• Alexander Dec'd
• Jannett 49 yrs
• Alexander 47 yrs
• William Richard 45 yrs